FDO w/ Bill Kottcamp
https://s.gum.fm/s-62e1488b057fe1d8eb1904a8/rss.art19.com/episodes/9150a2ce-2fa8-4968-885f-7e882f617998.mp3?rss_browser=BAhJIglpVE1TBjoGRVQ%3D--4577cbcc3cc5282be318e551563630a2c5c2f06f
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