6-9-24 Karl Vaters
https://anchor.fm/s/f7c8dbb8/podcast/play/88178581/https%3A%2F%2Fd3ctxlq1ktw2nl.cloudfront.net%2Fstaging%2F2024-5-18%2Fcc1ab2b4-7571-f50d-364d-f0848c3fa84e.mp3
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