Bree Paulsen thinks this one through
https://rss.art19.com/episodes/97eec808-16e4-4eec-b3b4-fb19a4858869.mp3?rss_browser=BAhJIglpVE1TBjoGRVQ%3D--4577cbcc3cc5282be318e551563630a2c5c2f06f
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