Kicking the Tires with Andrew and Ivana Firestone
https://chtbl.com/track/5899E/podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/00f18c26-ee5c-4186-a55e-af5600ec5574/14428800-8c76-4936-9bb2-b10c01770e88/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=94c033af-b724-4655-8db5-af5600ecb44d
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