How to stop placing them on a pedestal
https://anchor.fm/s/b5d1c468/podcast/play/88779386/https%3A%2F%2Fd3ctxlq1ktw2nl.cloudfront.net%2Fstaging%2F2024-6-3%2Fb43ffc64-82b6-d5fe-e329-2e763580e03c.mp3
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