The host defines the brand with John Barth
https://chrt.fm/track/9C6D54/cdn.simplecast.com/audio/c1685ff0-f215-4bea-80ff-1a461a015253/episodes/d90345d3-f313-464a-86a3-a7d5646ff3bc/audio/d72742ee-833f-473f-8f9b-85f4350131a6/default_tc.mp3?aid=rss_feed&feed=IvvhCNgQ
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