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Lenny Rachitsky
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The surprising truth about what closes deals: Insights from 2.5m sales conversations | Matt Dixon (author of The Challenger Sale and The JOLT Effect)
Matt Dixon is one of the world’s foremost experts in sales and the author of The Challenger Sale, which sold over a million copies worldwide and was a #1 Amazon and Wall Street Journal bestseller. His most recent book, The JOLT Effect, focuses on overcoming customer indecision—one of the biggest challenges to closing deals. Outside of writing, Matt co-founded DCM Insights, a boutique consultancy helping organizations understand customer behavior, and is a frequent contributor to the Harvard Business Review, with more than 20 print and online articles to his credit. In our conversation, we discuss: • Why 40% to 60% of qualified sales opportunities are lost due to customer indecision • Why dialing up FOMO doesn’t work, and what to do instead • The “pings and echoes” technique to catch issues early • The JOLT method for overcoming indecision • Key lessons from The Challenger Sale • Practical examples of how to apply these principles to close more deals — Brought to you by: • Enterpret—Transform customer feedback into product growth • Webflow—The web experience platform • Heap—Cross-platform product analytics that converts, engages, and retains customers — Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/close-more-deals-matt-dixon — Where to find Matt Dixon: • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthewxdixon • Website: https://www.jolteffect.com/ — Where to find Lenny: • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/ — In this episode, we cover: (00:00) Matt’s background (01:57) The research behind Matt’s books (06:08) Insights from The JOLT Effect (10:15) FOMO vs. FOMU (18:18) An example of selling software (26:04) The JOLT method Step 1: Judge their level of indecision (29:41) The “pings and echoes” technique (34:49) Step 2: Offer a recommendation (38:36) Step 3: Limit the exploration (41:43) Step 4: Take risk off the table (45:58) When to hit the pause button with a customer (47:27) Insights from The Challenger Sale (49:07) An example of a challenger sale (55:23) Where to find Matt — Referenced: • A step-by-step guide to crafting a sales pitch that wins | April Dunford (author of Obviously Awesome and Sales Pitch): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/a-step-by-step-guide-to-crafting • The Challenger Sale: Taking Control of the Customer Conversation: https://www.amazon.com/Challenger-Sale-Control-Customer-Conversation/dp/0670922854 • The JOLT Effect: How High Performers Overcome Customer Indecision: https://www.amazon.com/JOLT-Effect-Performers-Overcome-Indecision/dp/0593538102 • Gartner acquires CEB: https://www.gartner.com/en/about/acquisitions/history/ceb-acquisition • Tiger King on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81115994 • Why sourdough went viral: https://www.economist.com/1843/2020/08/04/why-sourdough-went-viral • Neil Rackham: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neil_Rackham • Status quo bias in decision-making: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Status_quo_bias • Omission bias: https://thedecisionlab.com/biases/omission-bias • Gartner Magic Quadrant & Critical Capabilities: https://www.gartner.com/en/research/magic-quadrant • Dunning-Kruger effect: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect • Stop Losing Sales to Customer Indecision: https://hbr.org/2022/06/stop-losing-sales-to-customer-indecision • Dentsply Sirona: https://www.dentsplysirona.com/ • “We happy?” Briefcase scene from Tarantino’s Pulp Fiction: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGchDuOpbhE • Nupro Freedom Cordless Prophy System: https://www.dentsplysirona.com/en-us/discover/discover-by-category/preventive/hygiene-handpieces.html — Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com. — Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe
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