051: Jill Winger on being "Old Fashioned On Purpose"
https://anchor.fm/s/b58d7ac4/podcast/play/76319589/https%3A%2F%2Fd3ctxlq1ktw2nl.cloudfront.net%2Fstaging%2F2023-8-24%2F348345082-44100-2-46cb48ca3d6af.m4a
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