Jony Ive
https://podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/f142f29a-33cf-4e9a-92e3-ae32006cd59d/218e561d-72e1-48af-8fdb-b2c600a207be/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=75bd3df4-3898-48a6-a40e-ae32006cd5b4
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