UPDATE: Chris Vaughn talks to Jason Flom and Lauren Bright Pacheco
https://podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/81cc4968-c996-45d6-9ae9-ae320005bd33/516609d9-de2f-4b70-b34a-b1d60163f128/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=80497d01-6d3f-4164-a600-ae320005bd46
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