Yes, and... programming still matters in the age of AI, with Carson Gross
https://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/3911462c-bca2-48c2-9103-610ba304c673/730450a5-553c-445a-b301-f3a9b0d36767.mp3
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