when the ref’s a robot
https://podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/tracking.swap.fm/track/DfXIxNL4FlhsFXtrke08/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/6e0008d8-6226-4a07-8232-ae2e01547189/fb85037d-3208-4026-abd5-b3a70163f14b/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=e3ded945-4db8-41cd-aeda-ae2e01547197
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