Rational and Religious (with Ross Douthat)
https://cdn.simplecast.com/audio/6fdba516-8381-43b0-b29f-59d05512b693/episodes/ce44c0c0-f5d4-4c71-a439-72ed58b76c45/audio/bb89cfe7-23c2-479e-8ae5-b7ca38274095/default_tc.mp3?aid=rss_feed&feed=wgl4xEgL
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