Visions of masculinity: Walz, Vance prepare for debate
https://chrt.fm/track/138C95/prfx.byspotify.com/e/play.podtrac.com/npr-510310/traffic.megaphone.fm/NPR9784908578.mp3?d=759&size=12149282&e=1202833897&t=podcast&p=510310
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